Cork Bark Pine

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Cork Bark Pine

Post  dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:14 am

what type of cork bark pine is this?




Thx,
--Dinh

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  cbobgo on Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:34 am

here's the best resource for cork bark pines that I've found on the web:

http://www.nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai_112109/Projects.html

- bob

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:47 am

cbobgo wrote:here's the best resource for cork bark pines that I've found on the web:

http://www.nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai_112109/Projects.html

- bob

Thank you for the link Bob. I think it is not Black nor Red cork Bark pine, but some how I still can't figure out what type of pine is this...

--Dinh


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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  cbobgo on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:05 am

looks like a J. black pine to me, but can't tell you which cultivar.

- bob

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:09 am

cbobgo wrote:looks like a J. black pine to me, but can't tell you which cultivar.

- bob

Bob, it you look the leaves closely, it does not look like black pine leaves....

Best,
--Dinh

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:53 am

I'm on my phone but my first thought was red, not black.

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:47 am

hard to tell from so far away but my initial feeling is too whispy for black pine - it can only be guess work though until it makes flowers and cones though so it may be a long wait. The trouble with looking at needles is they can be long one year, smaller another - it depends on how the tree has been cared for etc

If i had to offer a best guess I'd say it could be a native species 2 needle pine that has developed cork bark - potentially the flower could have been cross polinated to make the seed. If you can get the needles down to a bonsai scale and get the tree to make back buds you could have a tree worth propogating from in the future, maybe a new cultivar, who knows? As it stands the needles are absolutely massive though, even though the bark is great, so 50% of the way there

cheers Marcus.

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  Leo Schordje on Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:26 pm

If you got this as a potted plant from either a nursery or another bonsai grower, it most likely is Japanese Black Pine. The cultivar Nishiki Tsukasa has very thin wispy needles for a JBP, and I believe it has reddish buds, so the original Japanese material was most likely a natural hybrid with Japanese Red pine.

Nishiki Tsukasa is also known for long internodes, a difficult cork bark to make into a small tree. It does not back bud very well. Plan a larger design for this tree, say in the 3 foot tall range.

Nishiki Tsukasa is one of the more widely distributed cork pines in the USA, most were propagated a while back, so the probability of plants being traded around with 'lost tags' is very high.

If you collected this tree from the wild, take sharper images of the needles and the buds, those with collection location information would help nail down what species it is.

For what it is worth, those are my thoughts.

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:06 pm

Cool! Sounds reasonable to me Leo, and explains the confusion.

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:01 pm

Leo Schordje wrote:If you got this as a potted plant from either a nursery or another bonsai grower, it most likely is Japanese Black Pine. The cultivar Nishiki Tsukasa has very thin wispy needles for a JBP, and I believe it has reddish buds, so the original Japanese material was most likely a natural hybrid with Japanese Red pine.

Nishiki Tsukasa is also known for long internodes, a difficult cork bark to make into a small tree. It does not back bud very well. Plan a larger design for this tree, say in the 3 foot tall range.

Nishiki Tsukasa is one of the more widely distributed cork pines in the USA, most were propagated a while back, so the probability of plants being traded around with 'lost tags' is very high.

If you collected this tree from the wild, take sharper images of the needles and the buds, those with collection location information would help nail down what species it is.

For what it is worth, those are my thoughts.

Thank you Leo for your input.

Attached please find 2 close shots of the needdles and he buds for viewing. I won this pine from Oakland Bonsai auction few years back.







Regards,
--Dinh


Last edited by dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:02 pm


marcus watts wrote:hard to tell from so far away but my initial feeling is too whispy for black pine - it can only be guess work though until it makes flowers and cones though so it may be a long wait. The trouble with looking at needles is they can be long one year, smaller another - it depends on how the tree has been cared for etc

If i had to offer a best guess I'd say it could be a native species 2 needle pine that has developed cork bark - potentially the flower could have been cross polinated to make the seed. If you can get the needles down to a bonsai scale and get the tree to make back buds you could have a tree worth propogating from in the future, maybe a new cultivar, who knows? As it stands the needles are absolutely massive though, even though the bark is great, so 50% of the way there

cheers Marcus.

Great appreciation as always Marcus.

--D

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  Leo Schordje on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:49 pm

Great find, that you got it in California at a bonsai auction really confirms the likely-hood it is a 'lost tag' named variety of Japanese cork bark pine. You may never be able to nail it down as to just which cultivar it is, and that should not diminish your enjoyment of the tree at all. For sure if this is a grafted tree it is very likely it was a named cultivar. It looks like there might be evidence of a graft right at the soil line, but if the corking is really continuing down on to the roots, the tree may have been an air layer, a cutting, or from seed. Can't quite tell from the photo. You should decide.

The color of the buds - white or red, or in-between is a fall, winter & early spring trait, I just looked at my Nishiki Tsukasa and I really can't tell right now, my buds are more green than anything else, and the fall buds aren't big enough yet to tell either.

The pattern of corking when the tree is 20 plus years old will also give you a good clue which cultivar it is. The cork pattern in seedlings, might help or might mislead you.

As an aside, in the Chicago region I know there were a few seed grown cork bark JBP that were from seed produced by Shig Ito back in the late 1970's. Don't know how many are still alive, I accidentally killed mine 5 years ago. Other nurseries may have also produced cork barks from seed also, since the demand for them is so high. Granted one has to grow a seedling for a minimum of 5 years to even guess whether the cork bark trait came through, but since bonsai and formal Japanese gardens in California have been popular for so long, one or another nursery may have done this over the years.

One point of this wandering post is that there are real, genuine, cork bark Japanese Black pines that do not have formal cultivar names floating around in the US. You should have fun designing a tree to show off your pine's best future trait, the corky bark that will develop.

Leo Schordje
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Re: Cork Bark Pine

Post  dinh on Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:18 pm

Leo Schordje wrote:Great find, that you got it in California at a bonsai auction really confirms the likely-hood it is a 'lost tag' named variety of Japanese cork bark pine. You may never be able to nail it down as to just which cultivar it is, and that should not diminish your enjoyment of the tree at all. For sure if this is a grafted tree it is very likely it was a named cultivar. It looks like there might be evidence of a graft right at the soil line, but if the corking is really continuing down on to the roots, the tree may have been an air layer, a cutting, or from seed. Can't quite tell from the photo. You should decide.

The color of the buds - white or red, or in-between is a fall, winter & early spring trait, I just looked at my Nishiki Tsukasa and I really can't tell right now, my buds are more green than anything else, and the fall buds aren't big enough yet to tell either.

The pattern of corking when the tree is 20 plus years old will also give you a good clue which cultivar it is. The cork pattern in seedlings, might help or might mislead you.

As an aside, in the Chicago region I know there were a few seed grown cork bark JBP that were from seed produced by Shig Ito back in the late 1970's. Don't know how many are still alive, I accidentally killed mine 5 years ago. Other nurseries may have also produced cork barks from seed also, since the demand for them is so high. Granted one has to grow a seedling for a minimum of 5 years to even guess whether the cork bark trait came through, but since bonsai and formal Japanese gardens in California have been popular for so long, one or another nursery may have done this over the years.

One point of this wandering post is that there are real, genuine, cork bark Japanese Black pines that do not have formal cultivar names floating around in the US. You should have fun designing a tree to show off your pine's best future trait, the corky bark that will develop.

Plz accept my sincerely appreciation for your great input again Leo. I also have another Cork Bark Pine type like this but the trunk is much bigger. Will share some pix of it when I have time to take some pix.

Best,
--Dinh

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Re: Cork Bark Pine

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