Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

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Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:03 pm

So here's a super leggy Shimpaku that I'm totally not happy with. As it stands, it's kind of a windswepty semi cascade kind of deal. All the foliage emerges from 2 branches, one top, one lower, both almost as thick as the trunk, at around 1.5". Any suggestions? There's plenty of room for Shari, only that one small section at the foliage side of the base has been carved(by which I mean it was plunky and rotten when I got it and I cleaned it back to solid wood!). I suck at virts and can't draw for nothin, so hopefully someone who can has an idea.


Last edited by Ryan B on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  JimLewis on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:08 pm

I'd suggest you do some foliage reduction (it's pretty bushy). The only pic a virtual artist could work with is the first one. Backgrounds are too messy in the others. You may find you like it better when you've gotten the foliage under control.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Sorry Jim, the pics on my blog were too big. Problem solved.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:43 pm

And it's definitely NOT bushy. Quite the opposite, it's very leggy. That's really just a trick of the wire, with the pads all spread into a fan. If you look at the head on view, you can see what I mean!

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Rob C on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:07 pm

Hello Ryan..What about something like this. Tilt the tree to the right and down then remove the bottom part of the tree and jin the main branch. Makes for a nice, compact image.

Rob


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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Orion on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:30 pm

Hey Ryan not to be a pain in the ass, but would you take another pic of the back as in pic. 2? Maybe it's the shadow, etc., but I'm seeing something a bit more interesting from that side.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  marcus watts on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:23 pm

Rob C wrote:Hello Ryan..What about something like this. Tilt the tree to the right and down then remove the bottom part of the tree and jin the main branch. Makes for a nice, compact image.

Rob


cant have this one - the jin looks too phallic Embarassed hahahaha

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  marcus watts on Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:45 pm

this looks ok



reduce foliage a lot, use one branch for all the green bits, define a live vein and shari the rest in a nice spiralto match the trunk

good fun these, eveeryone should have one Very Happy

cheers Marcus

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Orion on Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:04 pm

yup Marcus, that looks a bit more like it.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:32 pm

Rob, Marcus, et al.
In case you couldn't tell, the foliage pad up top was wired for exactly the change Rob proposed. The live veins are crazy twisty, so, if thats the image I go with, it's ripe for nice Shari. With such an interestingly wiggly trunk, I wanted to see what some other people came up with(plus, I'm tired of being "the pot guy" all the time, so I promised myself I'd start posting some trees on the forums and blog!).
(and Marcus, the wang will be refined).
Thanks for the time and effort all!
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  fiona on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:08 am

FWIW if Marcus's option is do-able, that's what I'd go with. Corkscrew junipers are definitely good fun but they are also fairly common nowadays. Marcus's virt gives you something a lot different from the usual ones.



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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:47 am

I agree Fiona, it would require some pretty heavy raffia, probably some hollowing and wire inlay. That top branch is near as big as the trunk, and is leaning in the opposite direction from Marcus's design. The Shari would look much the same from the current planting angle though. That's exactly the type of virt I was looking for....now, where are my clippers :-)
I'll keep this one updated as it progresses.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Dendrogeek on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:05 am

Marcus has has chosen the best front - it already has a mature shari with swollen veins and the trunk movement, though hard to see in the photo, is more interesting.

The cascading branch is obviously the main problem. If it's not in the best position, bend it - you can bend inch thick juniper jins with heat, patience and care and strong wrists. Don't try to define the line of the shari under the new jin yourself, peel the bark slowly and let the plant's own vascular system show you the natural line. If you don't like where it's going, stop peeling and taper the shari to a point.

Eliminate the longest of the remaining branches and develop what's left into the denser and more elegant canopy in the virtual.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:32 am

Oh, I'm well aware of the ovals...cutting out small sections and seeing how the tree responds. I have 7 or 8 junipers like this one....this is the lesser of the group. Picked up more as fun project tree more than anything. Sorry for the late night photo, but here's one styled in a one on one with Bjorn earlier this spring. It popped some juvie foliage after the cutback and style, but now it's pushing mature. The Shari has been expanded considerably this summer. Lots of little ovals connected up!



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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  marcus watts on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:06 am

hi,
Glad you like the virt.

They bend ok. I tend to not bother wiring the trunk (or large branch) as even 4mm copper doesnt hold or allow the bend to go tight enough. Wet raffia put on tightly and thick - then importantly allowed to dry as it shrinks, holding the cambium in place even tighter. Then i tend to make up a tension wire from 2mm copper and use a lever to bend the upper section into place, as it gets close the looped guy wire is twisted tighter with pliers, holding the 2 sides of the bend in place.

Doing it like this you can stop, let the tree rest for a day or two then keep tightening the bend and twisting the tension wire as much as you need. (The old rigida 'branch to trunk' thread bent a 4cm ancient section of a tree from down to up). Personally I have never once snapped a raffia'd juniper branch off completely - they splinter, crack, split a bit but always stay attached and keep growing. Very Happy

A project tree on the bench at the moment is a juniper whos upper trunk is about 8cm thick and old. To bend it I have split the tree down the center with a chisel, bent the first half, then bent the second half to meet up and screwed them back together. All the green bits (there are lots) are still green and growing 8 weeks later so the tree hasnt even sulked.

the final pic for me is too wide - the coily compact trunks on these 'produced' trees work well as compact powerfull trees - the hard bit is making them look different. If you wanted a dramatic cascade I'd turn the tree 90 deg anticlockwise.....wheres photoshop............ Wink

As you say these are fun - I said everyone should have one to play on, you must love them having 8 ! Very Happy Very Happy (5 or 6 will end up on a rock planting one day !)

cheers Marcus,

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  marcus watts on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:16 am

very quick one before work



cheers Marcus

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:24 am

Hmmmm.....
Nope.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:28 am

One can never have too many super twisty Shimps, when one is a shohin nerd. Who knows what direction the current iteration of display needs....plus, working on them is fun, and a bit less worrisome than pines!

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:31 am

I was going to say...."Marcus, that's exactly the style I've been looking for, Robert's your mothers brother, where's my clippas!". But then I looked a bit closer, may be a standard Shimp, but a semicascade where's the roots become a deadwood feature is the best guess pass. Bobs your uncle...a decade away.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:43 am

For me at least:-) ill be happy with this factory Shimp for a while.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Jkd2572 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:37 pm

Ryan B wrote:Oh, I'm well aware of the ovals...cutting out small sections and seeing how the tree responds. I have 7 or 8 junipers like this one....this is the lesser of the group. Picked up more as fun project tree more than anything. Sorry for the late night photo, but here's one styled in a one on one with Bjorn earlier this spring. It popped some juvie foliage after the cutback and style, but now it's pushing mature. The Shari has been expanded considerably this summer. Lots of little ovals connected up!


Does anyone have progression pics of cutting ovals to create deadwood and guide the live vein?

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Dendrogeek on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:53 pm

Jkd2572 wrote:
Does anyone have progression pics of cutting ovals to create deadwood and guide the live vein?

You can't "guide" a live vein on juniper without compromising the tree. If you try to create curves in the veins they will either find their own natural line anyway, or eventually die. The only safe way is to peel the bark from beneath a jin and let the natural vascular bundles dictate the natural line.

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  marcus watts on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:18 pm

Ryan B wrote:One can never have too many super twisty Shimps, when one is a shohin nerd. Who knows what direction the current iteration of display needs....plus, working on them is fun, and a bit less worrisome than pines!

haha, maybe........but before long you'll see that everone has a shelf full of the same trees to chose from for every display they do, slowly it becomes repetative as viewers dont normally bother saying "ooh, that one is anticlockwise" Very Happy.

the fun is in the challenge i think - making a big tree small is an achievement rather than keeping a prebuilt small tree the same size. (My twisty production line tree went on a big rock and was planted in the garden 2 years ago now - wonder how its doing?)

sharpen those clippers though - plenty of greenery to remove Very Happy

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Re: Problem Shimpaku; Restyle suggestions!

Post  Ryan B on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:27 pm

True that, Marcus, all good points. I've been doing bonsai for 5 years now, I know my tastes will change over the next few decades!!! It took me a couple years to start to "get" bunjin-ji and understated elegance. Things are a bit different here, too, as opposed to across the pond. There aren't near as many of these twisty Shimps around. 4 year quarantine rules means less import stock! Lol.

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