Yamadori white oak

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Yamadori white oak

Post  thatboy5454 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:36 am

I collected a white oak back in new york about the start of February. It was going to be destroyed for new development. I was actually visiting on vacation but I couldn't pass up the opportunity and just let a tree go to waste. So I collected it and trafficed it back to Colorado unfortunately in my trunk. I arrived home about a week later maybe sooner and found something to fit the roots and soil. This is the first tree I've ever collected by the way but I did everything I could think of to preserve the tree. While it was in my trunk the roots we wrapped in spagnum moss as well as partial soil from the dig site as well as being in a plastic bag which kept it moist. Well the weather here in Colorado hasn't been very forgiving lately. I've had all of the branches die back and I was for sure the tree was lost and wouldn't grow anything. I thought at one point it may have been still dormant but by April I was very sceptical of that idea. We today I was cleaning the back yard and noticed about a 4 inch sucker growing from the base. I was very surprised. All the while during the seasons I kept it watered just for a day like this one. Signs of life. But its mid July. Now my question is the( if anyone can answer it) what's the likelihood of the tree surviving or even growing enough to prepare for next years winters dormancy but storing enough energy for next years growth? I can post picks as well for the size of the tree.

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Re: Yamadori white oak

Post  drgonzo on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:11 am

I have tried four times to collect White Oak and have had the trees live for a short time then die, sometimes borers, sometimes just dead...They simply do not want to generate new roots for me...I have read about grafting seedlings around the base of a tree you may want to collect and once they take and establish, then you can dig and sever the tap...but this is a multi year project just to lift the tree..

I finally set an air layer on a nice sapling (say 2 1/2 inches thick) in order to get the tree on its own roots and avoid severing the tap root which I believe is the death of all my collected white oaks.

The layer is actually doing very well, I was quite surprised.

thats my experience with White Oak for what its worth.

-Jay

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Re: Yamadori white oak

Post  thatboy5454 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:55 am

That sounds like a great idea. I also chopped the tap root as well. It was about id say 10" long. My only problem would be that I'm not sure where to get white oak seedlings being that most nurseries might not have them and being so late in the seasons what would you guess the percentage would be of a successful graft? The tree is about 30 inches tall and about 5 inches at the base of the trunk. I would guess that I would need another tree of atleast 1-2" to graft on and also be able to sustain such a large tree if indeed the roots are failing and will not support the tree next season as far as the growth goes. Ill definitely look around though and ask my club members is they have a spare oak they might want to lend me or exchange for another tree. Because the oak I have is very much worth a trade of another tree just for the possibility of saving it. I'm sure I have a lot of dead wood though. Which would make for a very interesting uro style bonsai. Maybe even jin the dead branches. Which I'm sure goes against traditional style for deciduous trees, but that's what art is all about, innovation.

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Re: Yamadori white oak

Post  thatboy5454 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:10 am










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Yamadori White Oak

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:24 am

Chalk it up to live & learn. White oak, Quercus alba, is a tree of the humid, temperate, near sea-level Northeast forests. I doubt that it will survive very long in Colorado. Were you at the recent convention in Denver? If you want to collect trees, get a Colorado blue spruce. They abound by the millions. I was surprised, but the show also featured a quaking aspen, with nicely reduced leaves. There are other suitable species, several pines.
If you must have an oak, look for one of the live-oaks from the West coast, but beware of Sudden Oak Death fungus.
Iris

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Re: Yamadori white oak

Post  thatboy5454 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:40 am

Yes I went to the Denver convention just last month. The one sponsored at and by the Denver botanical gardens. I got there late though. I only got to.see the exhibit, no classes or shows. It was said they even had a live wheel throwing of a lot of post that were later sold and some given away. I'm part of the pike peaks bonsai society. But I was thinking that elevation would play a vital role in how the plant would react. Maybe it even threw the dormancy off as well. Off topic but I recently posted picks of a birch which was effected as well. When I received the tree it had more ovate shaped leaves when it stared vigorously growing the leaf pattern changed to a more rigged for. Serrated in nature. But back to the oak...I was eyeing one live oak on ebay but got beat out. Some of the members here have had similar problems with even the oaks here collected. I think out of all the ppl in my group I'm the only one with a collected of that grew foliage. But once again the tree isn't from this state or even climate. It was a good experience and hopefully I get to learn more from it. Id love for it to survive. I personally see great potential or maybe I think that about all of my trees Smile

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Re: Yamadori white oak

Post  drgonzo on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:17 am

Garfting of Oak seedlings around the base of a potential tree is a method that is done in situ BEFORE the Oak is collected to allow for a replacement root system once the tap root has been severed and the tree has been dug out.

That little sprout may simply be the result of stored energy in the stem, Oaks store a lot of juice in their phloem tissue. Mine would often pop a few buds just like that, then in 3 weeks they keel over as ultimately there is no root system feeding them and they are too week themselves to generate new roots below the surface..but hope springs eternal.

That is why air layering is a great option for these temperate Oaks. I am lucky to have a forrest of white oak to work with. for you; Live Oak may be an idea, check out Jason Schleys website he has a few pre-bonsai

http://www.schleysbonsai.com./index.php?act=viewCat&catId=143

After so many failures at this point it would just be a horticultural accomplishment for me to get a thick trunked White Oak living in a pot, Its gone beyond Bonsai now.... it's personal. Mad
-Jay

Oh and Iris, I must not have shown you my shohin Eastern Cottonwood...leaves reduced now to about 3/4 of an inch! I would imagine Aspen could reduce just as well!

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Re: Yamadori white oak

Post  thatboy5454 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:58 am

That makes more sense to me. Adding threesome seedlings before extraction. I guess if this tree doesn't make it a live oak would be my next option as far as oaks go. They remind me of olive trees though. Kinda of the same shape leaves. There is a species of oak that has the same leaves as white oak that are native to Colorado. I'm going to have to do some research to find out what that species is. They have a yearlycollection season here that's about 45 days long. Starts in the middle of April which confuses me (mainly because most of the trees are out of dormancy and buds have opened by then). We only have to pay 10$ per tree tag up to 10 trees and the national forest is open to.collect. Hopefully by that time ill have my research together along with a game plan for collection of oneof the.native oaks if this one doesn't survive. I feel the same as you do when it comes to horticultural accomplishments. I figure if I can get multiple Japanese maples to survive here w/o leaf.burn I can increase my knowledge to successfully collect and maintain an oak here. Personal goal being created...thanks for all of the replies. Since I've joined you guys have challenged me to think more outside of the box on any issues I've brought to the table. Its greatly appreciated.

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