something we all need to be aware of

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something we all need to be aware of

Post  dick benbow on Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:56 am

I see this happening in both my japanese hobbies. It involves well meaning people but i think we need to have a concensus on the thing and that is stolen bonsai or Koi.
I watched on TV as a local bonsai celebrity bemoaned the fact that his bonsai was stolen. they played it up about how all he wanted was the tree back etc etc, then comes the point that drives me cracy, it was valued at
over $20,000.
coupla years ago I was asked at a demo by an young indiviual who I felt uncomfortable with his questioning about the value of a JBP that was being worked on. I deliberately avoided the situation by saying that it depends on who was valueing it and I would think the owner probably would have value based on things other than monetary standards. I felt quite proud of my response.
With respect to all who maybe unknowingly perpetuate this delemma, I really think we need to leave the money out of it and talk in terms of it's value by other standards. If you keep telling theives that they can get thousands out of a theft they will continue.
What's so awful is they don't know how to care for a tree or a Koi and usually end up damaging or destroying it before it can even be sold.
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest, it wouldn't hurt if the media co-operated a little and stayed away from including a high dollar figure in the coverage.

dick benbow
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Re: something we all need to be aware of

Post  marcus watts on Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:22 am

while i totally agree with what you say it is too late i'm affraid - bonsai trees historically have a perception of great value as the damage has been done by previous bonsai generations in playing up to this.

also the quickest way for a thief to value an item is to check ebay or similar - and there are a lot of stupidly overpriced trees on most ebay sites !

better use of demos, talks, media etc is to say things like " all the trees are micro tagged' these days, "all the trees are in an online database of images etc that can be circulated instantly".

Then I think the grower needs to do what they see appropriate - high fences, locked gates, CCTV, Dog....etc valuble trees can be chained down if need be. Once you take steps like these the trees are quite easily and affordably insured too.

cheers Marcus

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Just something I came up with

Post  Joe Hatfield on Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:50 pm

Dick,
Although I agree with the sentiment I do not see how it is possible to exclude the value of a tree for the public eye. I hate it but it is true.


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Re: something we all need to be aware of

Post  Orion on Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:37 pm

Interesting thread, but I'm not so sure money really factors into bonsai theft. I beginning to think more along the lines that this sort of thing is either perpetrated by someone who wants the tree for his or herself with no intention of selling it, or some punk who knows that these trees in pots mean something to the owner and gets a kick out of seeing the pain it causes when they are gone.


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Re: something we all need to be aware of

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:52 pm

This why I keep my trees in the backyard, behind a 8 foot Chinese bamboo hedge.
If I exhibit,which is extremely rare, no information is left about ownership on the information card.[ Additionally pots do get chipped, branches broken, when trees leave your care.]

I got into Bonsai because I like trees, and not to show or sell.That's why I am a Fine Artist, paintings/drawings I do sell.
Showing on the Internet is fun and safe.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: something we all need to be aware of

Post  0soyoung on Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:48 pm

dick benbow wrote:I watched on TV as a local bonsai celebrity bemoaned the fact that his bonsai was stolen. they played it up about how all he wanted was the tree back etc etc, then comes the point that drives me cracy, it was valued at over $20,000.
... What's so awful is they don't know how to care for a tree or a Koi and usually end up damaging or destroying it before it can even be sold.

Bonsai and koi are close to my heart as well, however, I don't recall seeing anything in the news before this happening, where it was reported that 'at place X they have bonsai valued at $20,000'. I think publication of the value, if anything, calms matters and makes honest and semi-honest people more aware and likely to tell authorities if they see something. IIRC though, the news did not identify what/where place X is that suffered this loss, which I think is more to the point of not encouraging imitation (ala, 'I rob banks because that is where the money is' - how do you do this if you don't know where the banks are?).

I presume the police know if the tree was carefully removed from the pot (evidence that would imply the theif knew something about what they were taking) or that it was, instead, yanked from the pot (evidence that would imply vandalism by some dufus or dufi). If it was theft, the thief knew well the possible value of the tree without any publicity. If it was vandalism, it was likely done in total disregard to the value of what they were defacing/destroying. Then there is also the possibility that this was an act of retribution for some past act of the bonsai's owner (the criminal knew the value of what they were destroying beyond its simple $-value). In no case does the publication of the $-value of the bonsai have much direct relevance to prevention of similar future crimes.

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Re: something we all need to be aware of

Post  dick benbow on Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:46 pm

was talking with the owner of Northwest bonsai, Sharon muth about the theift and she related a story that John Naka told her about the subject awhile back.

According to John, you buy a roll of new pennies all with the same date and mint location. As you repot your trees you put a penny in each one of the pots. If you need to make a claim on a stolen tree you can remove the wires to attach the tree to the pot and give them the date and mint. lots cheaper then micro chip Smile Thought that was ingenious since it's been awhile since sharon had the conversation with John.

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Plant theft

Post  mikesartin on Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:50 pm

Sadly, I have two planting stolen over the years: Hybred rhodendrons in Sioux City, Iowa and a Bismarkia here in South Florida. Unfortunately, I found the Bismarkia (much the worse for well) a couple later. The couple had "bought" the plant from the guy who trims their Don't ask me why I planted a $500.00. but it might no be a bad idea to freeze clippings for subsequent DNA analysis. I hope we are not interring a time when we will have to put alarms on our plants

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Re: something we all need to be aware of

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:09 pm

I must not have anything worth stealing, at least to anyone else. When asked, I tell people that my trees have great sentimental value to me because of the time, thought and emotion I apply to them. Then I tell them one can buy more pounds of wood for the firepit for $3.00 than they would get out my dead tree if it was stolen by someone who thought it was valuable but didn't know how to care for it.

Jay

What is the difference between worthless and priceless? Especially if it isn't for sale!

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Re: something we all need to be aware of

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