Wiring a Grafted tree?

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Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:45 pm

Not sure this question belongs here as this tree will most likely be grown to be a container tree or eventually end up in my garden, but the techniques are relevant so here goes......I recently acquired a high grafted Japanese maple "kiyohime Yatsabusa" which sits about 36" hight on a virtually straight stock j. maple trunk close to 1 inch in diameter which really just looks terrible. The trunk seems to have some flexibility to it and I would like to give the truck a nice bend to one side to accentuate its slight curve and then eventually graft another scion from the top graft farther down the trunk curving off in the opposite direction. I guess my concern is that most of my grated trees in the past have been grated in locations lower on the trunk where I never needed to wire or bend to this degree, will bending and wiring potentially damaged the graft (a four year graft, seems well bonded but still very visible)? Would wrapping in tape or raffia extensively improve my odds of protecting the union, or should this just not be attempted at this stage in the trees growth? Just concerned that in a year or so the main trunk may be a bit too hard to bend to this angle. Open to ideas and advice, thanks.

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  drgonzo on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:05 pm

A dwarf Maple on top of a regular Palmatum rootstock is going to eventually give you a taper issue as the more vigorous rootstock will out grow the slower dwarf scion. You see this a lot with grafted Sharpes Pygmy as they grow older. There is not much that can be done to correct it. So your probably looking at a yard tree..

How do you plan on bending the trunk?
-Jay

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Kev Bailey on Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:17 pm

You could try layering at the graft union?

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“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin.

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:32 am

I could be wrong about the root stock, and it could in fact be from a dwarf variety (not sure), but between not knowing that, and the graft being where it is, it's definitely going to be a large container or landscape tree. That being said I still want to style it up a bit now so that it grows into something I will enjoy in my garden. Bellow is a very VERY poor drawing of what I have now and what I would like to do, well at least as close as I could get it in ms paint lol. Basically I want to ad a nice (softer than the drawing) curve and then eventually graft another scion to create a bit of a "Y" lower on the trunk giving me two nice foliage pads. Since these are tight and dense branching I should be able to style each so that it creates a nice feature. Hope this explains what I am wanting to do a bit better, and thanks for the comments.

Steven


Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:35 am

-Kev

If this doesn't work, or I decide I still do not like the look by next spring, I will most likely air layer the graft union and go from there. If I did layer the graft off, and basically trunk chop the root stock, what do you think the odds of the root stock sprouting new (original) growth would be? Hat to throw out a perfectly good set of roots lol

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Justin_ on Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:53 pm

I 'm not sure if Kev was recommending you air layer just above the graft union or just below it. I'd try the latter.

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:25 pm

Ahhhh, that does make more sense, lol

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:03 pm

It would be possible to simply layer the graft off entirely (at some point when it is larger and and more established) would it not? I know growing most j. maple cultivars from cuttings is near impossible with huge failure rates, but I have seen and read about layering off branches of these varieties to develop healthy trees on their own roots. Not saying that is what I will do, as my primary plan is to carry out the bends and future graft to hopefully create a pleasing landscape tree, but just a thought.

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  leatherback on Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:31 am

Now that is a question I would like to see answered too. If no answer comes here.. I will have one in half a year I suppose: I am trying to layer off a dissectum right now; 5 weeks ago I set the layer; Will check in August to see whether it rooted. Suppose I will know late autum wether the layer took, and in next May wether it may survive long-term..

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Kev Bailey on Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:06 pm

If possible the airlayer should be right at or just below the graft point. It was probably wedge grafted so the chances are you'd get some of the stock and some of the scion, ensuring a good chance of roots even if this Yatsubusa form isn't easy on its own roots. That would also make the graft point invisible in future.

The chances of the stock resprouting are extremely good, so you should be able to keep the palmatum with good roots. Have you ever had to rub off buds popping on the trunk below the graft?

Some cultivars that are routinely grafted can do fine on their own roots, other are weak and some are very reluctant to root at all.

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:31 pm

Thanks Kev, It does make a lot more sense to graft a bit of the root stock trunk as well just to be safe, plus like you said it would be low enough and small enough that eventually you wouldn't even know it was there.

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Leo Schordje on Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:40 pm

Back to the original question, you can wire the rootstock trunk, as long as the wire does not cross the graft union. Don't put any tension on or across the union. Since the graft is 4the years old, it should be healed enough the bending the understock won't be a problem. The union will always be a weak point.

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:50 pm

Thanks Leo, just what I needed to know, I think I have come up with a way to bend the trunk the way I want without coming close to the graft union so I should now be fine, fingers crossed.

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  bucknbonsai on Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:46 pm

another simpler option might be to go for a Baobab style (somewhat like a broom), that can be made easily from urban yamadori japanese maples. I have seen a high grafted small leaf cultivar on a long thick strait section of rootstock. The tree looked wonderful in leaf and out of leaf as it resembled the madagascar subspecies of baobab. type in "madagascar baobab" on google images

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:52 pm

bucknbonsai wrote:another simpler option might be to go for a Baobab style (somewhat like a broom), that can be made easily from urban yamadori japanese maples. I have seen a high grafted small leaf cultivar on a long thick strait section of rootstock. The tree looked wonderful in leaf and out of leaf as it resembled the madagascar subspecies of baobab. type in "madagascar baobab" on google images


Hadn't even thought of that, that could actually be interesting, may play around with the idea a bit, you don't happen to have any pictures of the maples you have seen styled this way do you? Thanks.

Steven

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  bucknbonsai on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:02 pm

Unfortunately no i dont and I never will. I had seen this tree at a show on 2 different occasions. The owner was convinced to air layer right below the apex to form a short clump style tree. I was upset to hear of that especially when later I believe it died after that was tried.

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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

Post  Steven on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:19 pm

That is unfortunate, and also makes me weary of trying the same layering lol... I have to say the idea is growing on me, I may play with it a bit as it would be a fun project

Steven
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Re: Wiring a Grafted tree?

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