New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

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New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Josh S. on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:34 pm

Hey everyone, April 2011 I cut this tree a shortleaf pine (Pinus echinata) close it ground with intentions of seeing what might happen. It is a shortleaf pine is the only way I can explain it, they are littered in some areas down here. I never expected to be returning to this area today where the tree was located. But I remembered this morning I might find a tree to experiment with so I took a pot to work, that is why the pot is filled with sand, not a lot of planing went into this. So I dug around the root ball making sure to save as many roots as I could and pulled on the tap root until it broke. The tap root was about 3 feet deep and did not have a whole lot of roots surrounding it. To fit the tree in the pot I had to then cut the taproot down just enough to fit, about 6 or 7 inches now.
There is some potting soil in the bottom and I watered it well. Will the amount of roots I dug up be enough for this tree to make it and what are somethings I should do? Should I move the tree to a little bigger pot and give it some higher quality soil? The taproot it bottomed out the way it is now, or should I cut it down more? Thanks.




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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Guest on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:02 am

Hi Josh.
If that is a fresh sand from the beach your new tree is in trouble. It got too much salt contents that would kill most tree species.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Miller777 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:25 am

Is that pure sand?

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Josh S. on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:09 am

No, it's not from the beach, it's from well inland. It was in area and everything around sand with mix of clay. The bottom third is potting soil and I had to fill the rest with sand because I had nothing else and the root system was much too big to leave it (taproot is 7-8 inches). I wasn't exactly sure how to collect it the real proper way so I got as much of the root as I could.

Jun,
Why do you say it's in trouble. I agree it looks rough and the bark too, probably malnourished big time, but hopefully it will be hardy then.

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Josh S. on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:15 am

My main question is should I leave it alone for a few weeks then report it with a good mix of soil? Or repot as soon as I can with good soil maybe some organic fertilizer, giving it the best chance to revive itself?

Josh S.
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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Poink88 on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:26 am

Josh S. wrote:Jun,
Why do you say it's in trouble. I agree it looks rough and the bark too, probably malnourished big time, but hopefully it will be hardy then.
Read Jun's message again...it is conditional to the sand (if it is fresh beach sand).

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Josh S. on Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:52 am

I read his message better now. I'm not sure if people are seeing something wrong other than sand. I thought I explained well enough it is the same sand the tree has been living in I had nothing else around. Im a beginner and any criticism if fine and welcomed, I'm trying to learn

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:50 am

I live near the Space Center in Florida on an ancient sand dune about 15 miles inland, my soil is pure sand. I have a short needle pine growing on my property that we call a "sand pine" we also have "sand live oaks" both are adapted to this environment but so far have not proven to be easy to collect or good bonsai subjects.

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  JimLewis on Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:15 am

It's very late in the year to have collected this tree. I think its chances of survival are extremely slight. I hope it is tied into the pot securely, because any movement will eliminate any hope of new roots.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  marcus watts on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:52 pm

hi, if the pot has lots of roots it could be ok, especially as the pot is nice and big.

it is very strange but collected bonsai do not thrive potted up in the same soil they grow in the wild - one of the bonsai mysteries ! as conditions in a pot are quite different. Sand is wierd stuff - it holds quite a lot of water initially and very little air, then it dries out to a baked hard crust. Both these conditions are not ideal for encouraging new roots.

Personally i would be looking to the turface stuff that many are doing very well with over there as the initial soil to establish the tree. No feeding until you see proper growth, maybe a little shade from direct hot sun for a month or two, you could mist the foliage, this can help while new roots develop. Dont do any styling, wiring etc this year or next year, but you could feed from next spring if the tree is looking ok.

cheers Marcus

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  Josh S. on Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:13 am

Thanks everyone for the tips.
Thats all there is, sand or swamp muck here in Florida you'd be hard pressed to find soil, if you get up to 30 or 40 feet above sea level the soil gets better, haha 30 or 40 feet. It was my only opportunity to get the tree yesterday and thought if it survives in time, I can practice on something thats worth loosing. Already since I dug it up the new shoots of needles sprang back up, they drooped over on the ride home.
What is the best way to trim down the taproot? Such as with this tree the root was 3 foot into the ground, and 1" dia.

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  PeacefulAres on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:01 am

JimLewis wrote:It's very late in the year to have collected this tree. I think its chances of survival are extremely slight. I hope it is tied into the pot securely, because any movement will eliminate any hope of new roots.

I don't really understand that. You can dig a tree up, cut it's roots with a power tool and put it in a pot and it will be fine, but if it moves once it's in the pot, it won't make new roots. Why?

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  0soyoung on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:45 am

PeacefulAres wrote:I don't really understand that. You can dig a tree up, cut it's roots with a power tool and put it in a pot and it will be fine, but if it moves once it's in the pot, it won't make new roots. Why?

Because it breaks off the root hairs (that adsorb water and nutrients) every time the tree is moved in the 'soil'. Do this constantly and the tree dehydrates to death.

There is less of a problem with a soil that doesn't compact, meaning the individual granules do not stick to each other, even when wet (this certainly is not a property of most forms of sand except possibly coarse construction sand). Nevertheless (unless it is a very short tree) one still needs to do something to steady the tree or it will simply fall over and out of the pot.

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  marcus watts on Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:31 am

PeacefulAres wrote:
JimLewis wrote:It's very late in the year to have collected this tree. I think its chances of survival are extremely slight. I hope it is tied into the pot securely, because any movement will eliminate any hope of new roots.

I don't really understand that. You can dig a tree up, cut it's roots with a power tool and put it in a pot and it will be fine, but if it moves once it's in the pot, it won't make new roots. Why?

no, Jim means the actual time of year when the tree was dug up from the wild and put in the pot was wrong, so it may not be fine regardless of the soil it is in. A dug up tree needs a long undisturbed growing season to recover and grow some roots, and the production of new roots is always better as the tree just 'wakes up' in spring. digging late in the year means the tree needs to survive on minimal roots until next spring.

cheers Marcus

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  JimLewis on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Yes. I meant that (especially), but I also meant that when you plant a damaged root system into a pot, any new roots it puts out are VERY thin, delicate, and tender. If the tree is jostled, the movement of the roots in the soil may be sufficient to break these tender new roots and make the chances of success even less.

One always ties a newly potted tree into the pot.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: New shortleaf pine just pulled from ground.

Post  PeacefulAres on Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:11 pm

Thanks for the info. It seemed a little contradictory to me, but it makes sense now that I think about it.

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