TREE OR BONSAI?

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TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  LELE on Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:35 pm

Hi everyone, i`ve collected this tall Hawthorn last winter, i usually go for much more powerfull trees but when i`ve seen this one i thought i could make a nice femminine tree.
Today i`ve stared playing around with it and tried to make some easy virtual with paint as my drawing skills are not so nice yet.
After reading Walter Post on "SHOW US YOUR BROOM" I`ve realised that in all my virtual i follow always a single pattern, first branch, second , back branch and so on.
I`m trying to make my tree look like most of the pictures i see in magazine and internet etc, with a possible conclusion of having all my trees looking pretty much the same.
That`s definitely something that i want to avoid.
After i did the virtual, i asked myself: Would this tree grow like this in Nature? Of course the answer was not...
What would be for you the more "NATURALISTIC" style for this tree?
CHEERS


TREE AFTER 1 GROWING SEASON


Triangular Shape...NOT GOOD! As trees in nature are not triangular if they`re not young spruce, larch or redwood.


BOTTOM LEFT BRANCH...BYE BYE


SHORTER








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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  Loke Emil on Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:48 pm

Hi Lele

...something like this

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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  Mr Miyagi on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:19 pm

Nice material, it has good shape. The carving needs a bit of attention. Personally I would make the outline of the carving more irregular and take the hole deeper and again make it more irregular, as Walter Pall shows us in his post that you mention. As for the branches, looks good so far. Maybe let them grow for a year or so then cut back very hard and see what you’ve got. For me maybe something along these lines.
Sam


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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:58 pm

hi,
before thinking virtual you need to decide if you want it to look like a hawthorn........... Very Happy

if you go down the naturalistic route for me the style you choose has to instantly suggest the actual species of tree and its growth habits - rather than just any old tree - making a hawthorn look like a wild oak, beech or elm is no more natural than making it look like a bonsai otherwise.

purely inspired by my surroundings hawthorns are mostly windswept and weathered low shrubs and never actually take on a tree form at all so this would have to be my naturalistic route.

cheers Marcus


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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  Loke Emil on Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:41 pm

Marcus is right...in many habitats the hawthorn does rarely amound to any more than a shrubbery. However, it wouldn't make sense to create a shrubbery from the material presented...arrgh..no pun intended, Marcus ;-).

So to defend the 'naturalistic' (and feminine) design idea I came up with, I would have to say, that many haws in my area do get very old and slender, growing canopy shapes like the one I drew. Another consideration I took in to account, was to present an idea, which could be (structurally) achieved in a relatively short time.

So how are wild haws in your area, Lele?

cheers
/Loke Emil


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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  Mr Miyagi on Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:58 pm

I agree. Here are a couple of pictures of my little girl next to some very old hawthorns near our home. Might help for some inspiration.




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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:36 pm

hi,

As a true naturalistic subject the hawthorn has few overall design options so really this material suggests this to me



As they are shrubs thinking low, twisting and zig zags are the details to concentrate on to be true to the naturalistic styling camp and the natural habits of the material. For me personally it is this detail where advocates of the natural style can go wrong sometimes - making a beautifully natural tree image that does not mimick the mature image of the actual material used.

nice pictures mr miyagi - perfect hawthorns....

cheers Marcus

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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  LELE on Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:23 am

Thanks guys for the suggestions, i will definitely start looking at more trees in their natural habitat rather than bonsai in magazines.
Hey Marcus i love the virtualit really makes me think about a radical change in my designe especially after seeing the wild trees of Mr Miyagi....very inspirational.
The carving its actually not finished but i will follow your advice and keep it more irregular.

I Guess i have to start again Very Happy

Cheers

LELE
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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  Loke Emil on Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:24 pm

Hi Lele

Though my virt probably wasn't much of an inspiration to you...as Marcus's virt...I am glad you have found some new inspiration for your tree. I wish you many good hours of joy with this one and I am looking forward to seeing progressions ahead ;-)

@Marcus. I like your solution...if the tree's nebari (if there is one) allows such a change in planting angle. It would make a great naturalistic tree, I agree.

cheers
/Loke Emil

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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  LELE on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:34 am

Loke Emil wrote:Hi Lele

Though my virt probably wasn't much of an inspiration to you...as Marcus's virt...I am glad you have found some new inspiration for your tree. I wish you many good hours of joy with this one and I am looking forward to seeing progressions ahead ;-)

@Marcus. I like your solution...if the tree's nebari (if there is one) allows such a change in planting angle. It would make a great naturalistic tree, I agree.

cheers
/Loke Emil

Hey loke, I liked your virtual too. I really liked Marcus virt as he completely changed the angle of the tree but as you say only if the nebari allow such a change.
There isn`t really a nebari but the base it`s actually wider than the trunk with quiet a few roots around to develop a good nebari.
That`s the way i`ve found the tree in the wild, it looked very stable so i would love to leave the tree in that angle as it was its natural grown habit but give more of a naturalistic appearance.

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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  LELE on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:06 am

Hey Guys tomorrow with some light i will post a picture of the base....let`s see if we can change the angle Very Happy

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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  my nellie on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:28 am

Hello Lele!
Any news and update photos? Very Happy

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Re: TREE OR BONSAI?

Post  Just Mike on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:39 pm

im not going to get into the styling of this tree since there are already several good virts posted...i do however feel inclined to give some food for thought for the day...most of this is ramblings of an idiot, so feel free to pay no attention at all...

"nature", "naturalistic", "in the wild" etc et, are terms we often hear, and something most of us strive for...some of us prefer a more wild look to our trees, and others prefer a more artistic flare to our trees, and still others prefer a very manicured look...i dont persoanlly think any one is better than the other, and a lot of people enjoy having a bit of each in their collection, but, the scope of this thought food is about nature...

"would this tree grow like this in the wild?"...a question a lot of us probably ask when attempting to style a tree into something that looks natural...well, when it comes to collected trees, we really dont have to ask that question, since we know that it DID grow like that in the wild...nature has so many variables that asking ourselves that question can become more of a rabit hole than a guide when it comes to styling...of course this holds truer for some species more than others...i think what we might be searchig for when asking that question could be better found by asking a different question..."under what CONDITIONS am i trying to portray in styling this tree?"...

the fact is, asking the question "could this tree be found growing like this in nature?" almost always (within reason of course) has the same answer...yes, under (fill in the blank) conditions...there is great variation even within the same species that are dictacted by enviornmental factors...

at this point i could get into the whole artistic representation of bonsai and all that, but ill leave that alone for now, and offer a kind reminder that the finest trees tell a story...a vague story left for us to wonder and fill in the details, but a story none the less...and that story is almost always based around what the tree has gone through and endured throughout its life...and the "what" is has endured is almost always refering to environmental conditions and mishaps...

so, when ever you are stuck in the loop of asking yourself "WOULD this tree grow like this in nature"...take pause and try asking yourself "HOW would this tree grow like this in nature" and try to find the trees own personal story it has to tell...

ok, im done...sorry for the blabber.

Just Mike
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tree or bonsai ??

Post  moyogijohn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:49 am

For me picture #3 would be my style.. your little girl is so cute !! you have a great trunk don,t carve it to death !! only my opion.. take care john

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