Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:12 am

Hello Martin. Your right, my reluctance to remove branches is mainly for its flowering. Unfortunately I dont have a photo but bevieve me, its a picture. I'm hoping its in flower for the show. Fingers crossed. ThumbsUp

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Tony on Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:40 am

Thanks everyone for giving me ANOTHER job to do at JOB Rolling Eyes

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Stone Monkey on Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:50 am

I am up for the photo. What about meeting at one of the trade stands. I am there selling my wares, more than happy to have my spot as a meeting point Very Happy

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Jeremy on Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:45 am

will baddeley wrote:Hello Martin. Your right, my reluctance to remove branches is mainly for its flowering. Unfortunately I dont have a photo but bevieve me, its a picture. I'm hoping its in flower for the show. Fingers crossed. ThumbsUp

Hi Will,
I look forwards to seeing all the branches at J.O.B.

As the Bath show is in March and B'thorn's usually flower later in the year, (My B'thorns flowered thru late April last year.), are you doing anything to encourage early flowering?
I did note last year after that hard cold spell, (just before the really hard cold spell.), that in the wild some b'thorn do flower much earlier. Must be global warming. Or some kind of city thermal block? Question Rolling Eyes

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  fiona on Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:45 am

Me too - if circumstances allow me to get there.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  bigsteve on Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:02 pm

hi i will be attending on one of the days so i am up for the photocall - stone monkey stand seems perfect.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:50 pm

bigsteve wrote:hi i will be attending on one of the days so i am up for the photocall - stone monkey stand seems perfect.

Sounds good to me. Anyone got any tips to make sure my Sloe is in flower.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Kev Bailey on Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:37 pm

The only possible way, I can think of, is to make sure that it gets a long cold hard spell and then bring it in to a heated space approx 1 month before the show. Keep an eye on the blossom, as it develops, and slow it down if necessary by reducing temp's. This is the sort of thing that horticulturalists do regularly, after years of experimentation, to get blooms at the "wrong" time of year for Chelsea flower show etc.


Last edited by Kev Bailey on Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  bigsteve on Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:03 pm

Hi Will the man you should speak to is Dan Barton
his little sloe flowered on time for him most years
regards
steve

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:11 pm

Thanks for the info, both of you. I was unsure whether its down to warmth, or increased light levels. Will phone dan for more details.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:02 am

Spoke to Dan Barton this morning, re forcing the Sloe to flower. He has never forced a tree into flower, so cant really help me. As much as I don't like the idea of putting this tree through unnatural conditions, it would look a picture. If the begining of next year is as mild as it is now, there might not be a problem anyway but any suggestions will be great Smile

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  fiona on Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:46 pm

Hi Will. I looked back through this thread but couldn't see if you said where your tree was right now - still outdoors or in a glasshouse or otherwise protected environment. Might it be worth considering a cold but protected environment sooner rather than later?

Here's why I ask: after a suggestion from Lee regarding my own Blackie, I put it into the unheated (but insulated in bubblewrap) glasshouse. That was only about ten days ago and already I have noticed a difference in the buds. Previoulsy they were visible but not noticeable, if you see what I mean. Now they have really swelled up quite significantly, to the point where I am wondering if it is in fact too mild for them. We've only had a three or four nights when the temperature has dipped to about 1C and only three when it has gone below freezing. Daytime temperatures have been around 4C (today it's 7C). I don't think there is any danger of the tree bursting into flower immediately, but like yourself I wonder, if the mildness continues, if I will accidentally force it into earlier bloom.

I have a different motive for keeping it in the glasshouse (root development) so I'm not altogether bothered if early flowering happens. Would welcome people's comments on whether early blooming will detract too much energy away from root development or not though.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Kev Bailey on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:28 pm

Fiona, if root development and building up strength is the objective I would definitely remove flower buds, as soon as they are apparent. You have to be able to tell the difference between flower buds and vegetative growth buds to be able to do this though.

Wil, I can claim no expertise but have a feeling that it is a combination of rising temperatures and increasing length of daylight hours that induces the breaking of dormancy.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:32 pm

Hello Fiona. The buds on my Sloe are swelling as well. All my trees are kept outside, throughout the year. Im starting to think this is not such a good idea as its been so wet Crying or Very sad I think the only danger posed with your tree flowering, is if the flowers are fertilized. the fruit will sap a huge ammount of strenght from its very young root system.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  bigsteve on Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:39 pm

Hi Will
I have a couple small upright coldframes which i have for my accents but would be good for you to protect the sloe from the worst of the weather they are only£17 and money well spent.
steve

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:33 pm

Sound advise Steve, I'll go and get some tomorrow Very Happy

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  bigsteve on Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:41 pm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00080KPBG/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=471057153&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000288D1S&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=05ECSZ6F4GQ11Z0SQ27V
you can take the cover off in summer and in the winter if it is mega cold i put a tea candle in the bottom of the frame it keeps the frost out!
the other advantage is a lot of pests and diseases can not hide in them and the mesh provides good air circulation.
cheers
steve

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  fiona on Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:17 pm

Those are what I use for my accent plants as well, Steve. I don't put in the tea light though - might just give it a try as for some reason we ended up with about 100 tea lights from IKEA.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  bigsteve on Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:24 pm

ha ha thats where i got the idea from and its really good way of keeping the edge off things i place them in a bit of stone and they last most of the night.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  yamadoriman on Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:31 pm

will baddeley wrote:Spoke to Dan Barton this morning, He has never forced a tree into flower,)
Doesn't this say it all??????
If you want to show the tree in flower, pick a show at the right time.
Why risk the health of the tree just to satisfy your ego.

With the best regards.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:18 pm

yamadoriman wrote:
will baddeley wrote:Spoke to Dan Barton this morning, He has never forced a tree into flower,)
Doesn't this say it all??????
If you want to show the tree in flower, pick a show at the right time.
Why risk the health of the tree just to satisfy your ego.

With the best regards.

I think you'll find we do a great deal of forcing in bonsai...Do we not? I think were talking a couple of weeks max. If I thought there was any risk to the tree, I would'nt do it. This is'nt about ego, it's about showing the tree at its best.... Is'nt it?


Last edited by will baddeley on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  bigsteve on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:30 pm

i take to a show what ever looks best
i some times try and put a tree in a cold spot or whatever
but i only ever know of one artist trying to force a tree in 26 years.
steve

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Am I missing something here Steve. Isnt wiring forcing?
is'nt root pruning forcing?
leaf pruning forcing?
needle reduction forcing?

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  fiona on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:56 pm

yamadoriman wrote: pick a show at the right time.
Hmmm. Were it only so simple as this but the lack of true exhibitions in the UK makes it more of a matter of luck. One can only hope that show organisers take cognisance of such issues when setting show dates.

But I think Will is talking about giving his tree a minor "push" rather than taking a major health risk here. He most certainly is not suggesting we go to the extremes that our colleagues in the garden show floral exhibitions world go to to ensure flowering at a specific moment. (Having been around that scene for a number of years, I know that those extremes are exactly that - plants being kept refridgerated or the opposite, in the dark or in intense light and so on.)

So what constitutes a minor push? I would say that I did precisely that last year at Best of British when I sent my Elm down to live in sunny Ramsbottom for three weeks or so beforehand as I recognised that being a couple of hundred miles further south would make quite a difference in terms of the amount of leaf on the tree at the time of the show. I would say that in our bonsai situation this sort of action is to a extent "forcing" a tree. I would also say that, if measured in these sort of terms and if we are honest, quite a bit of "forcing" goes on before shows.

The difference is, as far as I can see, in working with nature rather that adopting all sort of artificial tricks.

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Re: Welsh beauty is a bit sloe

Post  mr treevolution on Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:01 pm

Horticicultural manipulation, whole massive set of volumes that one could be!
Thought that at the start of this thread that the health of this tree was in question. I would wait until the tree was in what you deemed to be top condition before attempting to alter time and twist the moon!
The best way would be to maximise the cold that autumn and early winter could provide where you live and expose the tree to all that you can get thrown at it. A tree needs to rest and needs a certain downtime at a certain temp to rest and reset for the next year. Later in the winter move the tree to a poly tunnel where you can remove the weather and slowly build the temp and light up, at a faster rate than the natural course. Can be taken further still with root warming and grow lights if you want.
No expert but have had to force a few things for RHS shows and also to get things saleable/flowering for the Easter market.
Personnally i would study the timings for your tree a season or two and show it early in couple of years if thats your thing!
Regards Nick

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