VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 10:07 am

As I have written in comments on YouTube...tree was practicaly useless with this terrible inverse taper and I was sure I have to do something radical. Also this was an interesting experiment and it turned out very well. This trunk splits function very well with thinner trunks, this is easy and predictable technic. The challenge was to try it with a big and bulky, hard trunk of a Prunus mahaleb. Heavier tools were needed of course. I am completely satisfied with the result, and in a three years time, nobody will know this horror even happened. Everything else I noted on the video in form of a YouTube comments.


Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed May 16, 2012 10:32 am

An interesting and courageous technique. But, "Chainsaw safety????"

Billy M. Rhodes
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 10:47 am

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:But, "Chainsaw safety????"

Uuups! Confused
Very Happy

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  abcd on Wed May 16, 2012 10:53 am

And what about security ? my god !!!! , tennis shoes , a very dangerous operation .
Do you know that the chainsaw oil should be changed by olive oil, because fuel oil is toxic for the trees.

abcd
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 11:00 am

abcd wrote:And what about security ? my god !!!! , tennis shoes , a very dangerous operation .
Do you know that the chainsaw oil should be changed by olive oil, because fuel oil is toxic for the trees.

This was done some three weeks ago and the tree growes like crazy. It seems very healthy and doesn't matter for chainsaw oil. I have never changed oil in chainsaw before, and I use it often when cutting bonsai trees. So, this olive oil is probably just a superstituous belief.
Do not worry, tennis shoes are ok. This is old pair for garden work and, I can assure you, no shoe has been hurt during this filming Very Happy

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  my nellie on Wed May 16, 2012 11:57 am

Sebastijan Sandev wrote: ... ...I can assure you, no shoe has been hurt during this filming Very Happy
Old tennis shoes used for garden works have not been hurt but they did leave a vast margin to the possibility of foot being hurt accidentaly by the chain saw, didn't they? Very Happy

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Poink88 on Wed May 16, 2012 12:32 pm

Sebastijan,

We only tell you this because we care. I used to be a member of a chainsaw forum (yes there is such a forum). Chainsaw is a very powerful and dangerous tool and must be treated with utmost respect. One slip and you can lose your feet (hand, or life). They make the nastiest cut you can imagine as well.

Regarding chainsaw oil and olive oil, I think he is referring to the bar oil. It is recommended to use cooking oil (any kind) in lieu of bar oil when cutting some tree species because some react differently with bar oil. The down side is that cooking oil is not as thick as bar oil so you need to top it off more often.

Stay safe!!! We do not want our friend and one of our best yamadori collectors getting hurt! Wink

Nice technique...one I've thought of using but haven't yet (and not quite as drastic as what you've shown). Keep the techniques/ideas coming!!! ThumbsUp

Poink88
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 1:26 pm

As I'm a surgeon and I worked in a big hospital for a decade, yes, I've seen a terrible wounds created by a chainsaw.
Thank you guys, all of you for your friendly advices and care.
I promise, no more old tennis shoes while chainsawing
Thanks once again. You have touched me with your care.

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  drgonzo on Wed May 16, 2012 2:44 pm

Sebastian,

Forgive me for being blunt but as someone who works with chainsaws on a pretty regular basis in my line of work I have seen a lot of people do stupid things with these tools. This is a perfect example.

If you bought your Stihl saw new, it would have come with an extensive instruction/safety manual that among other things would have advised you to NEVER step on what you are cutting and NEVER cut anything on the ground.

It's your life man, and if you want to risk dismembering yourself in the name of Bonsai have at it. However, in my opinion (and it's just my opinion) it's extremely irresponsible for you to be deliberately misusing this tool with such an obvious disregard for the proper handling of a chainsaw as well as for your own safety, then documenting it and offering it up to other bonsai enthusiasts as some sort of tutorial on You Tube where someone else (not as lucky as you are) might follow the same procedure, and wind up cutting their foot off.

The bonsai technique you are trying to demonstrate in this video is quickly overshadowed by the misuse of the saw, as the above comments on this thread plainly indicate. As such you are really only publicly displaying your own ineptitude and damaging what is a well earned reputation for outstanding bonsai related videos. I advise you to remove this video from You Tube.
-Jay




drgonzo
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  coh on Wed May 16, 2012 3:05 pm

I won't comment on the use of the chainsaw, as others have already covered that (though I did cringe while watching the video). But the end result does look pretty good. Can you possibly post a closer view of the tree against a plain background so we can better see the details? Thanks!

coh
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  stavros on Wed May 16, 2012 3:06 pm

Sebastijan Sandev wrote:As I'm a surgeon and I worked in a big hospital for a decade, yes, I've seen a terrible wounds created by a chainsaw.
Thank you guys, all of you for your friendly advices and care.
I promise, no more old tennis shoes while chainsawing
Thanks once again. You have touched me with your care.

i have tried this technique in a smaller tree (without the use of a chainsaw). One of the things that one must be aware is that once the tree starts to split towards the apex, it might go way beyond the point we want it to.

And something that very few will understand since it takes medical/surgical knowledge to know the terms (sorry): It reminds me of an maxillary alveolar bone split with an osteotome lol! lol! lol! lol!

stavros
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 3:26 pm

stavros wrote:
Sebastijan Sandev wrote:As I'm a surgeon and I worked in a big hospital for a decade, yes, I've seen a terrible wounds created by a chainsaw.
Thank you guys, all of you for your friendly advices and care.
I promise, no more old tennis shoes while chainsawing
Thanks once again. You have touched me with your care.

i have tried this technique in a smaller tree (without the use of a chainsaw). One of the things that one must be aware is that once the tree starts to split towards the apex, it might go way beyond the point we want it to.

And something that very few will understand since it takes medical/surgical knowledge to know the terms (sorry): It reminds me of an maxillary alveolar bone split with an osteotome lol! lol! lol! lol!

That's right. Very similar to a maxillary ridge split that we do quite often. lol!
Regarding the end point of a longitudinal crack... Well, that is also not seen in video, because video has been shortened of course and cut many times, I didn't just force the wedges into the tree trunk carelessly without observing how far the crack goes...you just have to be slow and carefull and hit the wedge few times, then checking the reach and width of a split

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 3:35 pm

drgonzo wrote:Sebastian,

Forgive me for being blunt but as someone who works with chainsaws on a pretty regular basis in my line of work I have seen a lot of people do stupid things with these tools. This is a perfect example.

If you bought your Stihl saw new, it would have come with an extensive instruction/safety manual that among other things would have advised you to NEVER step on what you are cutting and NEVER cut anything on the ground.

It's your life man, and if you want to risk dismembering yourself in the name of Bonsai have at it. However, in my opinion (and it's just my opinion) it's extremely irresponsible for you to be deliberately misusing this tool with such an obvious disregard for the proper handling of a chainsaw as well as for your own safety, then documenting it and offering it up to other bonsai enthusiasts as some sort of tutorial on You Tube where someone else (not as lucky as you are) might follow the same procedure, and wind up cutting their foot off.

The bonsai technique you are trying to demonstrate in this video is quickly overshadowed by the misuse of the saw, as the above comments on this thread plainly indicate. As such you are really only publicly displaying your own ineptitude and damaging what is a well earned reputation for outstanding bonsai related videos. I advise you to remove this video from You Tube.
-Jay




Thank for your good hearted opinion Jay. I repeat, it looks much worst than it was, and I won't comment the chainsaw work anymore.
I will put a warning about that in the video, that's a good point.

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Jack Carrack on Wed May 16, 2012 9:38 pm

What's the future plan for this? Are you hoping to eventually remove the wedges, leaving a hollow? Do you think due to the size of the trunk it might need supporting in this position forever? Looking forward to seeing how this one develops.

Jack Carrack
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Poink88 on Wed May 16, 2012 9:45 pm

Sebastijan,

I know the wooden wedges will eventually deteriorate and by then the tree should have set but have you considered filling the gap with some wood filler that you can carve and hopefully will also help bridge some of the gap for the bark to roll over to?

Poink88
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Wed May 16, 2012 10:25 pm

Jack Carrack wrote:What's the future plan for this? Are you hoping to eventually remove the wedges, leaving a hollow? Do you think due to the size of the trunk it might need supporting in this position forever? Looking forward to seeing how this one develops.
The tree will eventualy be completely hollow. I plan to leave the tree as it is during this year, next year I will further drill the tree and remove the wedges, also, I will spread the crack more apically, edit those stumps on circumference of the trunk and also drill and hollow apical part of those cut fat branches and connect those holes with the basal part of trunk split.
In the future, the wounds will start to heal and calous over, so those cuts will be more roundish and natural. The trunk will be rotten and hollow, resembling those old rotten flowering trees in a neglected old orchards.
In a five years time, nobody will be able to tell that this had been done artificially.
That's the plan

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

With a neutral background

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Thu May 17, 2012 6:02 pm


Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sakaki on Thu May 17, 2012 9:15 pm

Hi Sandev,

Is this pot your final decision for this tree?
In my humble opinion, color of pot is not so good for this tree.

Sakaki
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Thu May 17, 2012 10:02 pm

Sakaki wrote:Hi Sandev,

Is this pot your final decision for this tree?
In my humble opinion, color of pot is not so good for this tree.
Oh no, this is not my decision at all. This pot was first at hand. Doesn't matter right now, we'll think about the pot in few years Smile

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  will baddeley on Thu May 17, 2012 11:11 pm

Sebastijan Sandev wrote:
Is there a reason why you didn't airlayer around where the scars are at the fattest point? All that work splitting the trunk and it still has inverse taper.

will baddeley
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  akhater on Fri May 18, 2012 5:43 am

thanks you so much for sharing, I've read about this before on much smaller trees but never seen it done on such a big piece. and keep this video coming they are just great


akhater
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Fri May 18, 2012 6:32 am

will baddeley wrote:
Sebastijan Sandev wrote:
Is there a reason why you didn't airlayer around where the scars are at the fattest point? All that work splitting the trunk and it still has inverse taper.
Yes, a few reasons. First, tree has very good surface roots, nicely spread and strong with a nice ribs around the trunk. That cannot be achieved after air layering in ten years.
Second and more important one, I was curious to do trunk split, I just wanted to try the technic on such a fat piece of wood.
And when you say..."all that work.."..well, there is no really too much work in it, in this trunk split job...it's done in the matter of minutes, maybe 15-20min, and the result is visible instantly
Regarding still present inverse taper...I think it is mainly because of those ugli stumps still present on the circumference of the trunk. Those stumps will be drilled and some of them will merge as a holes with a trunk split. I believe that, at the end, no reverse taper will be visible any more
But, the truth is, this tree isn't so important to me, it is just an experimental piece. I want to try the technic and to see result Will. If I'm honest, that would be my answer

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  BrianG on Sat May 19, 2012 2:11 am

Hello Sebastijan thanks for sharing your videos... I'm a subscriber of yours on youtube. Please continue to keep them coming... I enjoy them very much and your doing a great job. love them monster trees!

BrianG
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sebastijan Sandev on Sat May 19, 2012 7:44 am

BrianG wrote:Hello Sebastijan thanks for sharing your videos... I'm a subscriber of yours on youtube. Please continue to keep them coming... I enjoy them very much and your doing a great job. love them monster trees!
ThumbsUp

Sebastijan Sandev
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Ricky Keaton on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:41 pm

loved the back ground audio, birds and beetles...

Ricky Keaton
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: VIDEO: Correcting reverse taper, the only option - radical tree surgery

Post  Sponsored content Today at 9:59 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum