Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  jong on Tue May 08, 2012 3:24 am

jun what medium did you used? i used mix with 1/4 black volcanic cinder, 1/4 river-sand and 3/4 black garden soil. thank you and more power.

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Guest on Tue May 08, 2012 3:37 am

....Don't use garden soil. River sand with coursed gravel or volcanic cinder will do. The garden soil has a tendency to retain too much water, it will be beneficial in the beginning but will be a problem in the future.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  jolz on Tue May 08, 2012 5:07 am

Jim,
Santans are very tolerant and they are normally propagated through cuttings, don't worry; I'm sure 99% of what had Jong's collected will survive. On the mass collecting issue, I agree with Dario and Jong, here in the Philippines; DENR are only concerned on bigger trees. They never cared about shrubs. I commend Jong for saving these Santans. I remember last year when me and Ka Pabling were traveling on the way to the beach, He asked me to stop by the roadside and he took some pictures of dying Acasia Fornesiana just dumped after uprooting to give way to a road widening project. We felt sorry for the hundred of uprooted trees. No people like Jong and others who were concerned on saving those trees were there, they were left to die and were then people near this place gathered them only for firewood.
Regards,
Jolz

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Ebbtide on Tue May 08, 2012 7:15 am

I'm confused regarding the use of '3rd world' here. Isn't it that Philippines is part of the First World which includes US and its allies? Third World means neutral and non-aligned countries like India and most African and So. American countries.

BTW I see collectors in Europe and USA posting pics of multiple yamadori trees but none questioned regarding their collection practices or mention of the word 'greed'. I'm embarrassed reading some of the posts here and its racial undertones. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  dexworks on Tue May 08, 2012 2:44 pm


Jim,

Could you please elaborate what you meant with this statement:

"And, Poink, I spent a good deal of my life in third (and fourth) world countries -- mostly in Asia. It was breathing their air that got me where I am today. (and please note: VERY few of them like to be called third world -- even when they clearly are.)"

How did "breathing their air got you where you are today"? Are you a better man because of this or worse than a racist first world greedy entrepreneur taking advantage of the rich resources of the "third world nations"?

And could you please enlighten us with your definition of a Third world nation, you seem to be a great authority about this subject, great and mighty Jim!

Derick

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Russell Coker on Tue May 08, 2012 3:13 pm



Really? That's what this thread is about?

Someone please let me know when it gets back to the santans. See ya.

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  dexworks on Tue May 08, 2012 3:29 pm

BTW, great find Jong, care to SHARE some of it, so it won't go to WASTE? Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Guest on Tue May 08, 2012 4:07 pm

Russell Coker wrote:

Really? That's what this thread is about?

Someone please let me know when it gets back to the santans. See ya.


..Sometimes Russell We have to stand up and not just shut up, specially when some racist is trying to put an entire nation's morale down with his arrogance. We are a very peace loving people and we love to deal with all kind of people and we treat them with all the respect they deserve. I know from the history of this forum, He won't even try to apologize and you know that personally...But at least we tried to educate him about some decency.
I've have seen here more violent reaction to some comment which pertains to tree styling done by specific country, and some folks in this forum people living in that country reacted to defend their styling,,, What more if your own country and it's entire nation is being insulted openly.

He has insulted me many many times, but this one I am sorry to say that he crossed the line.

.....Don't worry I am more than happy to share some knowledge about this specie, just asked anything and I'll try to answer it as much as I could.

regards,
jun

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Ice_Templar04 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:16 pm

Jun,

Since you're eluding to Jim's post. I have to say I think you're taking his post in the wrong manner.
First, he was not calling your country a 3rd world country. To the contrary, he was making your exact point.. He was telling poink "developing countries" don't like to be called 3rd world.
Second, you keep throwing out the "racist" card here.. but I don't see where anyone's said anything racist. I think you're stretching that one a bit far.

I think you should cool the jets a bit. So personally the tirade is unnecessary. This is about bonsai and we are here to discuss and comment on trees. There's political and social issue forums that are better suited for the side topic brought up.

Nice potential trees btw.

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Guest on Tue May 08, 2012 4:26 pm

Ice,

" Very few of them like to be called third world...EVEN WHEN THEY CLEARLY ARE."

Post edited out of respect...

regards,
jun I love you



Last edited by jun on Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  fiona on Tue May 08, 2012 4:28 pm

Ice has said it all and very well too. I have reread the thread thoroughly and see no-one making racist comments here at all. It wouldn't have got this far if it had. Dario has admitted that he used the third world comment, and Jim was the first to draw attention to how people are offended by it. That is the sum and substance of it.

Please now return the thread to bonsai or I'm afraid the whole thing goes - and that would be very unfair on Jong who actually seems to have been a force for good here.

Fiona (who once dug up a load of orchids that were about to be bulldozed)

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Guest on Tue May 08, 2012 4:33 pm

Ice_Templar04 wrote:Jun,

Since you're eluding to Jim's post. I have to say I think you're taking his post in the wrong manner.
First, he was not calling your country a 3rd world country. To the contrary, he was making your exact point.. He was telling poink "developing countries" don't like to be called 3rd world.
Second, you keep throwing out the "racist" card here.. but I don't see where anyone's said anything racist. I think you're stretching that one a bit far.

I think you should cool the jets a bit. So personally the tirade is unnecessary. This is about bonsai and we are here to discuss and comment on trees. There's political and social issue forums that are better suited for the side topic brought up.

Nice potential trees btw.


I really like Fiona...She is like a bucket full of ice cold water. hehe



Last edited by jun on Tue May 08, 2012 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  fiona on Tue May 08, 2012 4:41 pm

No further comments, please, on this thread unless it's to do with the trees.




General point: a very gentle reminder that the real "lesson" of the thread is to be very careful about terminology. Let's leave it at that.


Last edited by fiona on Tue May 08, 2012 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  dexworks on Tue May 08, 2012 4:46 pm

a simple apology would have sufficed, but I guess he's too big and great for apologies, so let me be the one to apologize to jong for the way this thread is going...

And Jong, reserve a piece for me and Jun please, hehehe...

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  JimLewis on Tue May 08, 2012 4:47 pm

How did "breathing their air got you where you are today"? Are you a better man because of this or worse than a racist first world greedy entrepreneur taking advantage of the rich resources of the "third world nations"?

Well, I am in the relatively advanced phase of a fatal lung disease that was caused by severe air pollution back in the 50s and 60s when I lived overseas and well before the terms "third world" or "developing nation" were dreamed up by High Paid PR professionals. And that's more than any of you really deserve to know.

For your information, I devoted my working career to environmental quality issues -- including air pollution.

I made NO derogatory references to any country and I think I clearly pointed out that people and nations are offended by the terms -- as seems perfectly clear by shoot-from-the-hip comments here. Some people need to think before they type.

As as for comments on indiscriminate collecting . . . I am well known for bluntly pointing out to all and sundry the unethical collecting habits of many people in MY country, much less other countries.

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Ice_Templar04 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:48 pm

Jim's first comment was on topic- Wondering why digging so many trees up was necessary. If you want to look at who got off topic, look at poink bringing up the 3rd world country topic, anti-capitalism rhetoric, fishers, miners, and etc.. Jim's comment was defensive in the sense that he was responding to poink.

Did it help to stay on topic- No. But you sure didn't help the situation implying he's a racist. Com'on man.

As for tirades. Of course we all have tirades. But the point is, this is not a bonsai tirade. I've seen Jim go on a tirade about his opinion regarding bonsai. Many of us do. (Example- I have regarding whether Chinese elms are indoor tress or not). BUT, this is a non-bonsai tirade. Therefore if you have strong convictions about the subject, take them to a non-bonsai forum and express them there.

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  Ice_Templar04 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:53 pm

Dex-

What is there to apologize about? You obviously are looking at it from the wrong perspective. This is just being blown way out of proportion. And you aren't helping the situation either, wanting "a piece" of him too.


Last edited by Ice_Templar04 on Tue May 08, 2012 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

Post  fiona on Tue May 08, 2012 4:54 pm

No further comments, please -this issue has been resolved offline. I am quite clear that no offence was intended - I'm asking everyone to accept that and let's move on (with a very gentle note to self for everyone to be very careful about terminology and/or jumping on other people's bandwagons.)

This is where we leave the matter - on the thread, in PMs or whatever.

Regards

Fiona The Bucket

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Re: Very old Dwarf Santan (Ixora)

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