I am wondering about thread grafting....

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I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  my nellie on Mon May 07, 2012 9:52 am

Let's say we have a stick (or a tube) in a pot Very Happy and suppose that the only existing two branches are too high on the trunk and we choose to thread graft new branches lower at the basal portion of the trunk.
Next, suppose the grafts have taken and we are at the time to cut the donators branches.

My question :
Is it possible to cut the branches NOT at the point of the entrance into the trunk, BUT keep them a little longer and cut them at a point so that we have 4 new branches instead of 2 (the air grafted ones).
Is it a viable option for those two donators branches?


PS: ...sorry if the language barrier makes it difficult for me to be more clear, nevertheless I hope you understand my question Very Happy

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon May 07, 2012 12:33 pm

my nellie wrote:My question : Is it possible to cut the branches NOT at the point of the entrance into the trunk, BUT keep them a little longer and cut them at a point so that we have 4 new branches instead of 2 (the air grafted ones).
Is it a viable option for those two donators branches?Very Happy

Your English is good.
What you are proposing would be an interesting experiment and might depend upon species.
Plants usually grow in one direction from tips or ends of branches, you would be asking the plant to grow backwards.

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  my nellie on Mon May 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Thanks Billy!
Yes, indeed it should grow backwards.
All the above hypothesis is in fact regarding a garden "yamadori" an apricot tree which had to be lifted anyway, so I have planted it into a nursery pot, made the thread grafting and the tree is sprouting like mad everywhere on the trunk, nevertheless not low enough... But I hope it will do so in the next weeks.
Since the donator branches are useless anyway, when right time comes I will attempt the experiment of backward growing and keep you informed Very Happy

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon May 07, 2012 12:53 pm

In Bonsai "bar" branches that are at the same position on opposite sides of the trunk are not considered to be a good thing. If you are looking ahead to this experiment you would want to angle the entry and exit points of your thread graft to avoid this either up / or down \.

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  my nellie on Mon May 07, 2012 1:07 pm

Yes, I see.
I have already directed accordingly the grafts, i.e. the hole is drilled keeping a downwards direction.
Thanks again!

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  JimLewis on Mon May 07, 2012 1:13 pm

I don't want to be a wet blanket, but the sap won't run backwards. Think what happens if you set a cutting in upside down.

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  my nellie on Mon May 07, 2012 1:27 pm

Except if it is a fig tree, Jim Very Happy
Ficus carica has the ability to make the impossible to be achieved, I can say.

On of the Ficus carica hard wood cuttings has been potted upside down to fix reverse taper and it has given me a sprout! Maybe it is worth while updating that thread with a photo, just for the information.... Very Happy I hope it will keep on growing, because the growth rate is too much slower than that of the other cutting's new shoots.

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  Poink88 on Mon May 07, 2012 2:06 pm

Alexandra,

I've read a few things about this and actually experimented for some time (not yet on bonsai) and it may work. My experiments were as a kid planting cuttings of; cassava/yuca, sugarcane (grass), sweet potato (vine). Most took but with less success rate that the normal. I tried to debunk the myth that what you will get is poison if you grow it backwards LOL. I am still alive so I think it is busted.

Note that though the Xylem flows "one way", the Phloem goes both directions. If you have a short section, the phloem might have enough flow to support it until it builds new xylem(sap wood)...hopefully flowing the "new" right direction.

Good luck with your experiment! I like it especially for introducing sacrificial branches just to build girth where you do not really care about bar branches since it will eventually be removed anyway.

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  Vlad on Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:06 pm

I guess that Alexandra is about to harvest the first fruit from the thread grafted branches and here I am ( quite late I know ) with some pics related to her question.


Prunus mahaleb_Thread graft started in 2014, separated at the beggining of August 2015.   On the pic below you can see a vital ( last check this morning:D  ) sprout  from the entry point of the thread grafted branch.   What is even more interesting -  the entry part goes through the deadwood.  So it seems that this sprout lives on the water  supply from the merger on the exit point of the donor branch?  
OK I do not foresee a long bright future for this sprout but it looks interesting and I will be eagerly waiting for the next spring to see what will happen next...




Betula verrucosa_Root thread grafts.  Started this spring and still in place. The separation planned for next spring to ease the healing.

There are several thread grafts and most of them have " airlayered" themselves  and shoot new root(s) from the exit point of the donor plant.  I will try to keep them in place after the separation to further improve the surface roots.  



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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  my nellie on Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:31 pm

Hello Vladimir!
Thanks for chiming in!
Unfortunately the apricot isn't still with me. My two cats have been pruning it often so debilitating the poor tree which didn't wake up next spring.
After that incident I and my husband have built special cages for my trees on the balcony Very Happy

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  Vlad on Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:05 am

I am sorry to hear that. The cages are well thought and nicely built.




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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  MKBonsai on Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:57 pm

I'd have put the cats in the cages..................................!!!

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

Post  my nellie on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:08 pm

Vlad, thanks for your comment.
Τhis is really a reasonable proposal MKBonsai Very Happy

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Re: I am wondering about thread grafting....

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